some more 70's tunes

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some more 70's tunes

Postby bluemando » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:43 pm

Elsrwhere in the forum i was discussing the merits of the JSD Band with Tosh. I went looking for my vinyl copy of their first albaum and came across Fairport Convention's "Babacombe Lee" which features some lovely mando playing from Swarbrick and Pegg.
It's an album you don't hear much about these days so I thought I would bring it back to memory. Give it a listen if you can.
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Postby Dave Hanson » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:57 am

If you like Swarbs mandolin playing on Babacombe Lee, you ought to try his 1967 album ' Rags, Reels and Airs ' now available on CD, it's roughly 50% mandolin and 50% fiddle, abley accompanied by Martin Carthy and Diz Disley on guitars, people tend to forget what fine mandolin player Dave is.

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Postby Tosh Marshall » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:40 am

I just stuck it on the CD player and like you say it's great playing by Swarb. Just goes to show that you don't always know what's in your collection!
Duncan, I bet you have the Lindisfarne stuff! I have discovered I don't have Five Hand Reel so I may investigate them because of Andy Irvine and Dick Gaughan.
Dave, I will definitely purchase the Swarb CD you recommended, thanks for that....
All the best
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Postby bluemando » Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:11 pm

Dave H - I'll look out for that Swarbrick CD - cheers.

Tosh - Yes I do have some Lindisfarne and the Jack the Lad album "The old straight Track" which has been re-issued on CD. Great playing by Billy Mitchell, Simon Cowe and Ian Fairbairn.

Duncan
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Swarb

Postby Tosh Marshall » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:16 pm

Dave H,
Couldn't resist the Amazon one click, fatal telling me about the Swarb CD...
Many thanks
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Postby Dave Hanson » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:55 am

You'll love it Tosh, some great mandolin playing on it, Swarb is so well known as a a fiddler and rightly so, but he was THE pioneer of mandolin in British folk music, and this album is 40 years old now.

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Postby Alastair » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:54 pm

Dave Hanson wrote:YSwarb...was THE pioneer of mandolin in British folk music
Dave H


I'm not sure that's right, except in England. Several Scottish groups were using mandolin pretty regularly even in the earliest days of the folk revival of the 60s (The Macalmans, the Corrie Folk Trio with Paddy Bell, Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor). They might well have been influenced by Irish groups, such as Sweeney's Men (Andy Irvine) and the Dubliners. I tend to prefer their sound to Swarb's - his mandolin work always sounds too percussive for my taste. Part of that is probably my view that Swarbrick and Carthy, whilst technically brilliant, don't really have a feel for the music of either Ireland or Scotland and so their performances of material from these countries don't do as much for me as the playing of people who were less technically accomplished but "spoke" the musical language of the celtic areas more fluently. Andy Irvine, of course, was and is both celtically (?) fluent and technically brilliant - but might reasonably object to being lumped in with "British" folk music.
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Postby PseudoCelt » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:14 pm

Alastair wrote:I tend to prefer their sound to Swarb's - his mandolin work always sounds too percussive for my taste. Part of that is probably my view that Swarbrick and Carthy, whilst technically brilliant, don't really have a feel for the music of either Ireland or Scotland and so their performances of material from these countries don't do as much for me as the playing of people who were less technically accomplished but "spoke" the musical language of the celtic areas more fluently.

I know what you mean about the sound of Swarb & Carthy. To me, they have their own sound, rather more English than Irish or Scottish. An English style is an equally valid interpretation, considering that many of the tunes on "Rags, Reels & Airs" have been part of the English tradition for a long time.

Alastair wrote:Andy Irvine, of course, was and is both celtically (?) fluent and technically brilliant - but might reasonably object to being lumped in with "British" folk music.

Perhaps,but I'm not so sure. He's half-Irish, half-Scottish, born and raised in London and in his early days at least, sang as many (perhaps more) American, English and Scottish songs as Irish ones.

One should also be aware that our current view of what is "Celtic-sounding" is very strongly influenced by the likes of Sweeney's Men, Planxty and others, whose sound would not have been considered strictly traditional at the time. Hence, one should not be surprised that Andy Irvine is fluent in a genre whose modern sound he helped to create. Likewise, our view of what is English-sounding is more than likely influenced by the work of Swarb, Carthy and others.

There was another thread about Swarbrick and other British mandolin players of the 60s. If I can find it, I'll post a link.

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Swarb, Irvine etc

Postby Tosh Marshall » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:41 pm

I understand where you are coming from Alistair but as Patrick mentioned in regards to Andy Irvine, it is sometimes hard to put a label on something. I have just got the Patrick Street album On The Fly which I love. I also got the Greencards' Viridian and they are two Australians, an Englishman with an Irish name and they are based in the States! Not that they play traditional Irish/Scots stuff but there are plenty in the States who do.
No matter whether it is trad, folk or modern, if it appeals, then it is good enough.

All the best
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Postby PseudoCelt » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:02 pm

Previous Swarb thread, then this one followed and mentioned other players of the 60s.

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Re: Swarb, Irvine etc

Postby Alastair » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:00 pm

Tosh Marshall wrote:I understand where you are coming from Alistair but as Patrick mentioned in regards to Andy Irvine, it is sometimes hard to put a label on something. Tosh


I can see that, and agree with it. My comments are, of course, about a matter of personal taste and not really about labels. However, my taste, as regards Scots music, has been informed by fiddlers like the late Ron Gonnella (whose playing was characterised by a huge depth of tone and a flowing delivery) and by some of the Scottish country dance bands of the 50s and 60s, like the Shand and the Powrie bands, whose music flowed and swung. Maybe the difference is that they were playing for dancing, which is, after all, what many of the tunes were written for. With those formative influences, I prefer other mandolinists - and, for that matter, fiddlers - to Swarb.

I still find "Liege and Lief" exciting, though!
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JSD Band - A Scottish band to be proud of....

Postby Tosh Marshall » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:07 pm

Hi Alistair, I just got my ebay win of Country Of The Blind vinyl album and it is a fantastic album, maybe not as polished as the Black Album but as good in it's own merit considering it was recorded on a shoe string budget. I think these guys hail from the Scottish Dance Band tradition, although I am sure Nigel Gatherer will probably know more about the individual musician's backgrounds. The newer CD's to me were a touch too polished, which seems endemic in todays artists. I prefer the raw edge of the earlier limited recordings, like they used to do in the Sixties when you had to play virtually live and nail it in a couple of takes, hence the power of the performance. Today after track 48 they seem to lose the plot and forget why they were there in the first place!
Anyway these lads are a band Scotland can be proud of.
Dave H, I also got the Swarb today and will give it a listen....
Duncan, a mate of mine transcribed parts of Open Road, which I will try and put into a PDF file.....
All the best
Tosh
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Dave Swarbrick

Postby Tosh Marshall » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:09 pm

Dave H,
This is a great CD, thoroughly enjoyed it. Great to have something with Diz Disley on. Quite a mix of stuff as well, jigs and reels to ragtime.
Great recommendation Dave, I love it.
Many thanks
Tosh
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Des Coffield

Postby Tosh Marshall » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:03 am

Des Coffield from the JSD Band has a myspace site with some nice mando on a track called Opus Minor. I like Hey Michael, a typical JSD Band track.
All the best
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Postby bluemando » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Just ordered Swarb's CD off amazon. Only £4.98! Happy Xmas to me
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